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Opinions abound both for, against Burge's decision to acquit father in abuse case
JENNIFER BRACKEN, Morning Journal Writer
08/22/2007
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In this image provided by the Lorain Police Department, the back of an 8-yea-old boy (who is now 9), is seen with visable marks from his father who struck him with a belt.
In this image provided by the Lorain Police Department, the back of an 8-yea-old boy (who is now 9), is seen with visable marks from his father who struck him with a belt.
The back of an 8-year-old Lorain boy is seen with visible marks where his father struck him with a belt.

LORAIN -- Lorain County Common Pleas Judge James Burge's decision to acquit a Lorain father of charges for striking his 8-year-old son with a belt has generated some strong reaction about the use of corporal punishment.

Last week, James P. Smith, 28, of Lorain, was acquitted by Burge of domestic violence and endangering children after Lorain police detectives, a Lorain County Children Services case worker and the county prosecutor's office determined Smith's discipline had crossed the line.

One Wakeman reader wrote, ''A parent's right. Since the parents lost the right to punish the old fashioned way (the woodshed out back) our children have gone wild and out of our control at all ages, unruly with no respect for others and mostly their parents.''

Another Wakeman reader opined that ''disipline (sic) is a long way from child abuse. Parents have the RIGHT to disipline (sic) their kids. ... I believe if you don't whip your child to teach them right from wrong, you do not love them! Hats off to the judge for helping to get these kids under control.''

Not all readers agreed that the father's actions were appropriate.

''A swat on the butt is one thing, this was too much. The father could have broken or bruised one of his son's vertebrea (sic). He had no reason to put a belt to that child's back,'' a North Ridgeville reader wrote.

A reader from Canada agreed.

''I am appalled at the ignorance and violent attitude of Judge James Burge in acquitting James P. Smith of assaulting his son with a belt causing injuries to the 8-year-old's skin,'' he wrote.

Pictures of the boy's injuries from his father's belt were shown to Burge during the trial, and Burge said the prosecution didn't adequately prove Smith's actions were excessive or caused serious physical harm or the risk of serious physical harm to his son.

''If our juvenile delinquents would receive a few swats, our juvenile detention center would not to so full. Many children don't get to adulthood knowing right from wrong,'' Burge said in defense of his ruling.

Readers congratulated Burge for taking his stance.

''Bravo Judge Burge! When parents started getting reprimanded for disciplining their children is when the detention centers started filling up and parents lost control. That's why the youth of today have no conscious and no direction.''

''The right choice,'' a Lorain reader wrote. ''We need more judges that can think like Judge Burge. I would rather have my kids spanked now than be killed later.''

Dr. Sylvia Rimm, a child psychologist and director of the Family Achievement Clinic in Cleveland, said based on research, she has learned when children are physically hit they become more aggressive.

''Many years ago it was not uncommon to spank a child on the behind with a belt,'' Rimm said. ''Whether a person is guilty or not depends on how hard the child was hit.''

Rimm disagreed with the level of punishment inflicted on the 8-year-old in the case. She said a child should not have been hit over the back, and if it caused welts on his body, it is considered child abuse.

''Any child who has welts on his back and suffering the pain of feeling those welts is feeling pretty hated by that person,'' Rimm said. ''That's not a loving expression and that child has to feel fear, terrible fear.''

Officials at Irving Elementary School contacted Smith after his son was caught kissing girls. Smith's attorney, Jenifer Berki, said toys and video games were taken from the boy as punishment, but when his actions continued, Smith hit him with a belt. Berki said Smith's actions did not cause his son to bleed and the child was not hospitalized for his injuries.

Lorain County Assistant Prosecutor Sherry Glass presented photographs to spare the child from having to testify against his father, according to Lorain police Detective Ralph Gonzalez, who investigated the case.

Gonzalez said he forwarded his initial investigation of the April incident to city prosecutors, and because Smith has a domestic violence conviction involving the mother of the child, it was given to the county prosecutor for review. Gonzalez, who typically investigates crimes against children, said Smith's actions were ''bad enough that we sent it for charges.''

Lorain County Prosecutor Dennis Will said his office prosecuted the case because they believed the evidence showed that the discipline crossed the line.

''Clearly, we believe the evidence substantiated the charges,'' he said. ''The question is whether or not (discipline) becomes an assault.''

Marilyn Zeidner, director of the Genesis House, a provider of domestic violence care, was shocked by the comments of readers who support the father and Burge.

''I would emphasize we are taking 10 steps backward by not taking a zero tolerance policy when people use violence to get what they want,'' Zeidner said. ''There are other ways of teaching right from wrong than using violence and beating.''

Zeidner said Burge's ruling sends a message that the community doesn't care about its children.

''Even the children we see that just witness violence against their mother are traumatized as if it is happening to them,'' Zeidner said. ''They learn to use violence to get what they want. Children live what they learn and that's how the cycle of abuse continues from one generation to the next.''

Lorain County Children Services spokeswoman Patti-Jo Burtnett said her agency investigates concerns and complaints about abuse and neglect, which includes bruises or injuries caused by a parent.

''In those situations when we think they are significant we report it to the appropriate law enforcement agency,'' Burtnett said. ''It's the court's responsibility to determine if the injury is in the bounds of corporal punishment or not.''

She would not comment specifically on the Smith case.

Since being acquitted of the charges, the now 9-year-old boy is back in Smith's care, according to Gonzalez. Smith has primary custody of the 9-year-old and his younger brother.

''It was the wrong decision made by the judge,'' Rimm said. ''The psychological dilemma now is that the judge has made a decision that put the child in a weakened position. If in fact the child does do something again and the father decides to use physical punishment again, the father can find himself going even further.''

Rimm encourages parents to be firm with their children and hopes the father will get counseling to provide him with guidance about raising a child.

jbracken@morningjournal.com


©The Morning Journal 2010

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Reader Comments
Added: Tuesday January 22, 2008 at 02:29 PM EST
why whoop ur kids
why would he do that knowing his kids can go tell authorites and get him arrested it's happened tome when i was younger but i never told anybody.i still have bruises and scars from where my father and grandfather used to hit me so i say the father should go to jail because that's wrong beating ur kids when u know if it was you .you would'nt wan't to feel that pain your kids are making think of what im saying next time you hit ur kids otherwhy's it all comes around and gets u back like you did your kids.
Tony Davila, Lorain, Ohio
Added: Tuesday August 28, 2007 at 11:29 AM EST
A** whoopins
KUDOS to you judge...People are killing me with this abuse crap! How many people in the world, who are adults now go their butts whipped when they were younger...BILLIONs and they are here, and most have turned out just fine.
Point: Discipline your children, if everyone did, maybe Lorain would be a tad bit safer!!!!
toya, lorain
Added: Monday August 27, 2007 at 05:10 PM EST
Judge Burge decision
It very strange how everything a parents does is wrong to the community. If we spank a child excessive it is wrong. If the child becomes an unruly child or a delinquent it is our fault. It seems to me that neither the courts, the psychologists, know what is up any more, everyone whats to comment on how to dsicpline their children. At least Judge Burge keeps it real. Everyone knows if you hit a child with a belt it is going to leave mark. Especially if the child starts jerking around. That does not mean that the father or mother should be put in jail for spanking their child. The kids now aday have no fear or respect for their elder. Especially since the society came up with calling everything child abuse. Now this world is like the boy who called wolf what true and what not. I do not want anyone to take my rights away from me to discipline my child........
Laurie, Lorain, Ohio
Added: Monday August 27, 2007 at 11:16 AM EST
Is the law working in this case?
Thank you ATTORNEY Sam Bradley for your explanation of the law in support of Judge Burge. I feel much better now hearing it from someone who has worked closely with the judge over the years. Do you also favor child abusers? I understand having to follow the letter of the law, but sometimes the law needs to be changed. There was a time when the law was not strong enough to adequately convict child abductors and molesters. Let's not pretend Judge Burge only interprets the law because it is seems he has no problem attempting to MAKE law in other cases. A judge is supposed to separate his own feelings when ruling. This judge has shown his hand yet again.
Donna, North Ridgeville OH
Added: Sunday August 26, 2007 at 04:46 PM EST
Corporal punishment
I am a Huron County resident who is trying to gain custody of my children and because I occasionally spank my children on the bottom with a paddle I have been chastised throughout the proceedings as basically someone who beats my children instead of trying merely appropriately disciplining them so that they understand right from wrong as well as for their own safety. Even Children Services found an allegation that my daughter went and claimed against my husband and I as unsubstantiated, but the defense is making me out as some horrible child beater which is furthest from the truth. They are trying to tie occasional paddlings into Corporal Punishment. I think if you leave marks such as this from a belt, that is wrong. Not to mentioned that it's across the back. There are appropriate ways to discipline and appropriate places. Across the back so severe that it leaves marks is not a way to discipline, in my opinion.
mrsteno@juno.com
Added: Sunday August 26, 2007 at 09:05 AM EST
That was an 8 year old boy? If it was it went beyond spanking , but whatever that boy did I bet he won't do it again ! have not agreed with some of the rulings this judge has made and I'm not to sure on why he made this one maybe to put some fear in these kids because there are plenty who need it !
sarah, lorain ohio
Added: Sunday August 26, 2007 at 06:59 AM EST
judge burge
good for you judge burge. you stand firm in your belief's. a good ole spanking never hurt anyone. that's half the problem with kid's these day's some parent's don't step up to the plate. and take care of the problem's at home. i got my share growing up it did me no harm. and i think your smart enough to know the differnce between a spanking and a beating. parent's you need to deal with your kid's
joe elliott, lorain ohio
Added: Sunday August 26, 2007 at 03:25 AM EST
EMA, nicely said. Kudos
Eric Walker, Avon Lake
Added: Saturday August 25, 2007 at 08:53 PM EST
When Does Discipline Cross the Line?
I've read most of the comments here and I have a few comments to make. Yes, that picture doesn't look like your average 8 year old boy...but these days, 8 year old girls look like they are 18 years old and many of the younger boys look like they work out. I don't know if the picture is "real" or not, and frankly, you are all missing the point here. A father (and I use that word loosely) beat his child hard enough to leave substantial marks and that several people saw those marks and thought that it was child abuse. They reported a crime as they supposed to do according to the law. Speaking from experience, I know what it is like to get beaten severely by a parent. My father abused me constantly from a young age because he blamed me for "trapping him into marriage" at a young age. I wasn't there to unzip his pants, so I still, after almost 50 years of living understand why I was to blame for his and my mother's lack of control. While marriage didn't stop his hound dog ways, it did give him an excuse to beat the living daylights out of both my mother and mostly me. When my mother wanted to talk to him about it, he'd threaten to have her deported (she's European and hadn't become a citizen until 1967 when you actually had to know what being a citizen is all about and study for it). When I was 17, my father beat me with a belt so badly that I had cuts, bruises and welts on my back that looked like a scene out of the old South. It looked like someone had taken a whip to my back. My crime...I defended a friend against my own sister who lied about why her car load of so-called friends got pulled over by the police. This was over 30 years ago, before parents were jailed for beating, molesting or killing their children. As my younger sister screamed her head off, the other one I "dissed", tried to help me while my father was beating the hell out of me laying on the floor trying to protect my head. My mother was trying to pull my father away and got thrown against the wall for her efforts. I didn't sass my father, didn't scream obscenities at him or anyone, didn't touch anyone at school, didn't do anything except say that my sister's friends were a rotten bunch of people and my father was blaming the wrong person (who was home at the time they all got pulled over). My dad didn't like my friend because he had long hair (honest...that's how that went in those days). After my dad beat me, we all jumped in the car to go to my friend's house so my dad could confront him. No one called the police then and no one helped me. Those in charge believed in corporal punishment and thought parents should pretty much be able to do whatever they wanted to their children including molesting and maybe even killing them because they were a "problem". These things were best left in the family because it wasn't anyone else's business. I agree that there are many kids these days that are out of control and that discipline should be the norm, not the rarity. But spanking your kid is way different from beating the snot out of them. A lot of adults cannot control themselves once they start hitting their children. Shrinks refer to that kind of adult behavior as "reverting back to their childhood." You know the story, they were beaten (or molested or whatever) as children and now they are transferring that to their child or someone else's child or raping and killing because they hate their parents or some such utter nonsense. That defense is used successfully in courtrooms all over the world. I never beat my own children. That's not to say they didn't get a swat on the butt if they needed one, but I found other ways to discipline them without resorting to uncontrollable anger and rage. Why would I want to inflict that on a child of mine or any child when I know what it is like to be an abused child? If that boy was beaten as badly as the police and the others say he was, then Judge Burge made a very bad decision. He just gave that man permission to beat his kid anytime he feels like it and perhaps the next time he does, he'll kill the kid. And will the Judge let him go again?
EMA, Lorain, OH
Added: Saturday August 25, 2007 at 07:38 AM EST
Reality Check....
Wake up people! This case is about abuse which clearly is what it is by the photograph PROVIDED BY THE LORAIN POLICE. There is a line between discipline and abuse and if any intelligent person with common sense can't see the difference by that photo well, You need Your head examined. As for blaming society or the courts for the way Your children grow up to be, take a deep hard look in the mirror. Maybe You need to brush up Your parenting skills. Then again it is always easier to blame someone else for what You aren't willing to do. Maybe some of You just need a reality check. It makes me sick to think people would approve of this judges choice in this case. Looks as if this judge once again has made some more bad choices being the Ohio Attorney General has brought suit against him for exceeding his authority. Imagine that!

Quoted in the case, "Smith has a prior criminal record of domestic violence and drug charges". Wow, again, imagine that! What a model parent huh? As for the judge, Don't worry Judge Burge, I'm sure come election time You'll have more time with Your family after Your voted out of office, unless who knows, The Ohio Attorney General just may take care of that for us sooner. What a disgrace to our elected officials!
Eric Walker, Avon Lake, Ohio
Added: Friday August 24, 2007 at 12:44 PM EST
picture and opinion
so is the real picture ever going to be published? lots of comments on it what is obviously not the correct picture
tonya, amherst, ohio
Added: Friday August 24, 2007 at 09:02 AM EST
JUDGE BURGE
THANK YOU........now to bring back CORPAL PUNISHMENT???????
YOU need to me nominated for DO THE RIGHT THING......
...................................................karen..........lorain ohio
karen mike, lorain ohio
Added: Friday August 24, 2007 at 06:48 AM EST
Article from Chronicle-Telegram about this kid said:
Burge said the marks looked worse than they actually were and that he supports corporal punishment. Smith struck his son because he had been getting into trouble at school for inappropriately touching female students and teachers and was not stopping despite his father trying several means of punishing him, Burge said.
......Nothing was said in Lorain Journal about TOUCHING female STUDENTS and TEACHERS. Yes, this kid was WAY OUT OF LINE! I truely think this kid got belt marks on his back from not standing still for the whippin. Not ment to go on his back at all, but thats where they landed. Do I feel sorry for this kid? Hell No! Kids need to head the warnings parents give them before it results to punishment like this. This kid was given plenty of chances, he did what he wanted. Kids have this "you can't hit me" policy drummed into their heads at school, churchs and youth groups all the time. Like I said before in my past comment, ' If you don't whip your child to teach them right from wrong, you don't love them'!! Oh and yes, I live in Wakeman but I lived in Lorain for 23 years and raised 3 kids there. Wasn't easy at all and YES they got whippins, ask them. Living in a bigger city like Lorain raising kids is not easy. That has a lot to do with raising kids.

Jacalyn Barker, Wakeman, Ohio
Added: Thursday August 23, 2007 at 08:55 PM EST
Accountability
Look around you,do you feel safe as you once did? Once the Journal carried stories of national figures,auto accidents and local and county news. Today you pick up any paper and what do you see schools being locked down,teenagers shooting one another,assults and all major crimes. How many people would walk down the streets of Lorain after dark,most have more than one lock on their doors. Our jobs as parents today is to give your kid $30.oo and tell him to go to someone elses house. Parents feel good about themselves and say "What a great parent I am". What a crock,your kids may not be bothering you but chances are they are crowded up somewhere underage drinking,smoking and driving like idots. Where the desclipine has gone so have the the kids we think belong to us. I knew as a kid if I did wrong there would be a price to pay. My parents took the time to know where I was and what I was doing and this took extra time away from them and things they wanted to do. Shame on them for being so self centered and wanting better for me than the had. I had my share of whippins and I thank my mom and dad every day for being so abusive. Judge Burge many people want the belt used on you and the father to feel better about themselves. When one of their kids comes into your court room for assults,rapes,robberies,drive by shootings and murder give them the same as they wish you to have. Let the family of a rape victim shooting or what the crime may be have this person to pass sentence for what they have done. Before long people won't be afraid to walk the streets of Lorain. I voted for you this time and will the next!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Help make our town safe once again if possible.
denver Casto, Lorain,Ohio
Added: Thursday August 23, 2007 at 08:48 PM EST
are you shucking me?
enough said.
occieberger,jr, greensboro,nc
Added: Thursday August 23, 2007 at 08:46 PM EST
come on lorain journal. who's the cop in the picture.that is not a boy ,it is a very small cop portraying a boy.plus they would not release a photo of a child under age.the judge has spoken,my child didn't have any marks and they took mine ,even though this pic is a man those wounds will heal.bye for now i'm sure lorain will come up with summmppinn else.
occieberger,jr, greensboro,nc
Added: Thursday August 23, 2007 at 04:43 PM EST
What is wrong with physical punishment
Thank you Judge Burge!!!!! When are parents going to take control. For too long the kids have had thier run of the house demanding what they want when they want it and parents giving in to them. If the kids get punished they threaten the parents with the law. What ever happened to the parents being in control and deciding what was best? I agree children should not be beaten BUT a mark on their behind or back will remind them longer than time out not to make the same choice. Dad beating mom is different than a child getting punished for misbehaving.
Connie Cerilli, Norwalk, Ohio
Added: Thursday August 23, 2007 at 11:15 AM EST
Corporal Punishment Advocate
Children do not get choices: The disciplined 8 year old boy obviously thought he could choose whether or not to listen to Dad, or respect school authority and little girls.
The parent wielding the belt was obviously "fed up" with the his 8 year old son not listening and snapped. If this father made several attempts to discipline the child using nonviolent methods, and the child clearly continued with the inappropriate behavior; what choices did he have? Should he have called the police, Judge Burge or maybe leave it to the teachers to discipline his child? The parent went off..and that's what should happen when kids refuse to respect authority. I have daughters and would not want this kid running around kissing on my girls because he feels like he can get away with it. That's what happens when a child has no fear of consequence. They continue running around doing whatever they want, until someone stops them. In this case, DAD stopped him and he learned a painful lesson. Judge Burge reviewed the same sensational photo shown in the paper and made the right decision. The child received a few whacks and no serious injuries. My guess is that Dad and son will be get along just fine from now on, and put this incident behind them. Thank you to Judge Burge for giving control back to parents.

Lastly, I have never seen an 8 year old boy that muscular before--I highly doubt that was the right photo. That boy appeared bigger than my 13 year old son.
Dustin Cruzado, Lorain
Added: Thursday August 23, 2007 at 09:52 AM EST
More from WoM
There's more in depth reactions at the WoM blog too.

http://thewomblog.com/?p=735
Roman, Lorain
Added: Thursday August 23, 2007 at 05:37 AM EST
wow
IF THE KIDS TODAY GOT PUNISHED LIKE WE DID THE WORLD WOULD NOT BE THE WAY IT IS TODAY..I PUNISH ALL 5 OF MY CHILDREN THE WAY I THINK THEY SHOULD BE PUNISHED NOT THE WAY THE SYSTEM WOULD WANT US TOO...THEY ARE NOT DEALING WITH WHAT WE HAVE TO AS PARENTS WITH THE LAW TELLING THESE KIDS "IF YOU ARE BEING ABUSED CALL 911" I WANT MY KIDS TO PICK UP THE PHONE TO CALL 911 BECAUSE WHEN THE POLICE GET THERE I WILL TELL THEM WHY I AM PUNISHING MY CHILDREN AND I HAVE HAD OFFICERS TELL ME TO GO AHEAD I WILL STAND THERE AND WATCH YOU BECAUSE EVEN THOUGH SOME MIGHT NOT AGREE ON THE DECISION OF THE JUDGE WAKE UP IF HALF THESE KIDS GOT PUINISHED THE WAY THE PARENTS BEST KNOWS HOW THESE KIDS WOULD NOT BE DOING WHAT THEY ARE DOING...AND ANOTHER THING I HAVE A 18 AND 20 YEAR OLD SON AND MY 18 IS SHAPED AND BUILT LIKE THE SO CALLED 8 YEAR OLD IN THAT PICTURE ...THANK YOU
CJS, SOUTH LORAIN OHIO
Added: Thursday August 23, 2007 at 12:15 AM EST
Terrible!
The father AND the so-called judge are both to be reprimanded. Children don't learn love by being abused, and abuse is not discipline. Abuse is caused by people who can't control themselves and who are too lazy to think of other ways of discipline. Think of the word "disciples." Can you see Jesus abusing his disciples so that they learned what he wanted to teach them? Of course not. He used love and other methods. This is archaic, backward, and ignorant and is against all studies of how to treat children.
Linda Donath, Alpharetta, GA
Added: Thursday August 23, 2007 at 11:37 PM EST
right is right wrong is wrong
i am all for punishment but i think that was a lil bit extreme kids now a days are a bit out of control but that doesnt mean abuse them what that picture showed was abuse and no judge should see it in any other light what ever the boy done wasnt deserving of having to go around with bruises on his back just so his father can think he taught him a lesson now that he's been cleared of this what happens if the next time he does something bad seeing that he's only 9 aand he just so happens not to live to show an adult.
vonia, lorain,ohio
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 10:54 PM EST
Who will be this child's protection?
I just feel so bad for this poor little boy! This child's voice is not being heard! How awful it must be to be beaten by your "father" and then turn to the justice system for help and then have them turn you back to your abuser! That little boy must feel so lonely and unprotected. I am a parent of two and always have people tell me how well behaved my children are. Parents need to take the time and talk to thier children and teach them lessons when they stray from doing right. A child should NEVER be punished like this little boy was! Children are not animals and shouldn't be beaten like one! This "father" should have been sent to a Psychologist for some anger counsling and sent to parenting classes before he was ever even considered to be in contact with his children again. What a pathetic society we have become to believe this is acceptable! I pray God's protection over these poor innocent children and that the parents will open thier eye's to the blessings GOD has given them and learn how to raise them correctly.
Erika Collins, Vermilion, OH
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 10:24 PM EST
father in abuse case, with burge
it's exactly true what the said kids think they can get over on all, cuz you can't touch me or i'll call children service on you. when i grew up all my mom and pop had to do is use a strong tone of voice and it was done whatever they told me to do. also made sure we had respect for elfers, teachers, or who ever else it was. you fused up in srore for sometjing you got it there and didn't care who seen you.
patricia davila, lagrange, ky
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 09:36 PM EST
Burge should be removed from the bench
It is one thing to spank a child. It is totally another to beat him or her to the point that is illustrated in the picture shown. What kind of lesson does this convey? This will only perpetuate severe physical punishment in the future generations.

Maybe someone should put some welts on Judge Burge's back. Maybe then, he would realize that beating (not spanking) is an unacceptable method of discipline.
Beth Frankel, Mesa, Arizona
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 08:52 PM EST
Way to Far!!!
As a child of whom got disciplined i find this sick! My parents did NOT need to beat me to get the point across. I turned out fine. I am a college graduate and a wonderful mother now myself. Never would i think of doing this to my child. This father should not get the chance to do this again. He obviously doesn't know his own strength! And as for the judge i feel he was a poor lawyer and is an even poorer judge. Just by this action he has done i hope that should anything further happen to this child that he feels the quilt every day. It will be because of him that this continues! There is a line that should have been drawn but since the judge didn't do it maybe the voices will. Maybe Burge should get taken "out back" and have the same done to him! See if then he feels that this was only a simple punishment!
Karen Webber, Sheffield Lake, Ohio
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 08:39 PM EST
There is a difference between spanking and abuse. This is abuse. To leave marks like that can hardly be classified discipline. Shame on Judge Burges not to protect this child. I wonder if he had marks and was beaten like that if he would still judge it to be discipline and not abuse. The child does not deserve to be under this type of care. He needs to be protected. What will be the next story we will read that has happened to this child because of Judge Burges actions?
Marilyn, Norwlalk, Ohio
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 08:23 PM EST
there is a line
there is a line between punishment and abuse. a belt to the buttocks is acceptable punishment but not like that on his back. I have 3 of the best kids I know and they know that if they deserve it they'll get a belt to their backside. ( I've spanked 1 once)
Kevin, Elyria
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 07:56 PM EST
belt marks
This is so sad. What a unjust thing to do , to let this father by with this horrible beating. However he sure looks older than 8 or 9 in this photo. Never hit my children and they grew up very successful . We taught them right from wrong and spent time with them. Not enough time is spent with children today. That is where a lot of it starts. This to me is considered abuse.
Jean, Bellevue Ohio
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 07:42 PM EST
spare the rod spare the child
This is my first time replying to an article of this magnitude. I do not read the paper daily and just happened on this today. Sylvia Rimm was a godsend 19 years ago. My 19 year old is a perfect example of her beliefs. My husband and I went to her free seminar at the Sheffield Middle School when she moved to Sheffield Lake 19 years ago from Wisconsin. She along with not believing in corperal punishment stressed trust and respect for each other. It has always been our feeling that to physically punish your child only teaches them to get what they want through violence . It also instills disceet , fear and poor self esteem.I can only hope this now 9 year old will seek counsel from whereever he can soon. This has to be earth shattering for him as well as his younger brother.
I am shocked and discussed with Judge James Burge. How irresponsible of you. You are setting the bar for all the rest out there. How many kids out there will pay with physical abuse after their parents sees this on the evening news and compares notes at the water cooler. Hey, it is a green light,Judge Burge. Sound extreeme?
What isn't anymore? Back to my point about child psycokogist Sylvia Rimm........
Love and trust is key.Our son talks to us about everything.People laugh when we tell them.....but he truly trusts us that much to feel that free to come to us uncondtionally.
My husband and I used time out for our son in his younger years and as he got older we removed his electronics altogether and confined him to his room with books only It worked and never relly got a fight from him. Like our parents said,"It hurts us more than it does you." Well I don't know about that. I think it was pretty equal. We got through it without a scratch.(pun intended) We let him out to Pee,shower and eat..I think it took a lot of patience on our part especially as it ran into days of solitary at times Smacking a kid and using other form of physical abuse is the easy way out I think. It has been proven that a child only will remember the sting and the humliation not the lesson he learned form an act of coperal punishment.. After I read the opinion today from the person from Canada is when I knew I had to put my 2 cents in. In Canada it is against the law tho inflict physical punishment on your child.Ther is a lot to be said about that.. Too many unknown deaths and permanent damaged kids as a result of ignorant parents that are too lazy to take the time to resersh and put the time into disiplining their child without getting physical.It is a matter of mental damage as well. The mere thought of inflicting pain on my son makes me flinch. Just typing it is rough. Break the vicious cycle of the abuse. Abuse it the ugliest sense.
My son is an example of this. We broke the cycle of our generation......so can you.
My son is entering his freshman of college and I can say with much pride he is what I refer to as the greatest person I have ever known to date. Oh, by the way I did not mention he is an only child and yet no spoilege. If your are reading this Sylvia Rimm, Thanks a bunch. You were our saving grace. I pray for all the kids out there who are inflicted with pain, shame and shattered egos.I also pray for their parents to change their plan of displine...... it is never too late. They deserve your resect.

Betty Hall, Amherst,Ohio
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 07:21 PM EST
You Go Judge!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am so glad the judge ruled the way he did. In our home(with three young boys)my husband and I use spanking when absolutly necessary. We feel that in this case, Although he shouldn't have been hit on the back, a spanking was in order. Mr. Smith tried other avenues, and they didn't work. Kudos to him for doing what was necessary to stop it now, before it really got out of hand.
All you pychologists keep saying he'll be traumatized and it will stay with him for life. That's the point!!!! Somewhere along the way we lost sight of our defined roles. A child is just that, a child and should be treated as such.
I was spanked(with a belt on occasion)as a child. And today, I am a happy, law abiding adult, who is raising my children the same way. I have no physical or emotional scars, and my children won't either. They will however always be respectful and considerate of those around them.I believe it is necessary for a child to have a certain amount of fear of a parent, but at the same time, knowing it's out of love. Children have to know that for every action there is consequence.
Our kids keep getting "time outs",thats why our jails are over populated, 12 year olds are having babies, and most authority figures have lost control. It's our job as parents to teach our children right from wrong. Those of you who feel a simple slap on the wrist is proper punishment, What makes them do the right thing next time? I feel these parents have made thier children thier equal. They have confused the roles in a household. As much as I love my kids, Thier opinion is not equal to mine. It's not our job to be thier friends, we are thier parents. Because his father took serious action, next time he'll think twice.
Thank You Judge Burge for putting the roles in proper order.
S. Orellano, Elyria
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 06:55 PM EST
Is this really a surprise?
Judge Burge is the same man who defended that cold-blooded killer Filiaggi; just a few months ago I saw him chomping an unlit cigar in Dom & Luigi's barbershop talking sympathetically about his former client. Like alot of defense lawyers in Lorain, the man seems short on moral integrity.
Your Honor, Lorain's problems don't derive from the fact that most parents aren't beating up their kids like in the good old days. There are many other causes, you and your ilk being one of them.
Nick Kowalczyk, Iowa City, IA
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 06:23 PM EST
TOUGH LOVE IS A MUST AND IT IS NOT ALWAYS PLEASANT
Judge Burge is a great judge…. I commend him for making great decisions as a judge and I commend him for offering people that do make bad choices, a chance to better themselves and to allow these people to be involved with their children and their families…

I discipline my children and I wish judges would make parents more responsible for these children that run wild.. I received spankings that looked like that when I was a kid, I’m still here and thankful…

I wish there were more judges like you in this county… That’s why the prison’s are so overcrowded… “Spare the rod spoil the child”….

When kids move and act up they get hit right where the belt lands… Judge McGough wasn’t lenient but should have been… People commit crimes eveyday and are locked up, those that truly should be are not and those that should be given chances don’t get it..

I spank my kids, I tell the police I spank my kids, I would tell the principles I spank my kids, I spank them because I love them.. And if it hurts them GOOD…. Children need to have fear in them… That it why we have so many children killing each other and their parents..

Lack of fear….. Teach them right from wrong , to treat others how you want to be trated, to fear God above, and to be in fear of a good spanking when it’s deserved…

JUDGE BURGE CONGRATULATIONS ON A JOB WELL DONE… I HOPE OTHER JUDGES LEARN FROM THE EXAMPLE YOU SET… YOU ARE FAIR AND WHEN YOU GIVE SOMEONE ANOTHER CHANCE YOU’D BE SURPRISED HOW WELL REMEBERED YOU’LL BE…THANKS..

D.T., Lorain, Ohio
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 06:10 PM EST
May God help this child!
I cannot believe this poor child is back with his father who beat him with a belt. Judge Burge, How, in your right mind can you acquit this abusive father. Who is protecting the child? Since when does an 8 year old deserve to be beat for kissing girls!!
Judy Smith, Medina, Ohio
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 06:10 PM EST
Whose back is that a picture of?!!
You can't be serious!! That is a teenager or adult mans back! Not a body of an 8 or 9 year old child. Give me a break! Do you think the American people have become that stupid?! Either the reporter should be reprimanded for putting that picture in the paper or the police for trying to pass that picture of to prove their case!
Jinx, Ohio
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 05:45 PM EST
Too Far
I will agree with Judge Burge to a degree, yes children need more discipline in their lives and it is the parents responibility to provide it, but this case went over the line! I was brought up in a household where you knew if you screwed up you were either going to see the business end of the paddle or your fathers hand on your bottom or something to make you remember the enxt time you thought about doing whatever got you in trouble, the consequences of your actions. There was never a time when any marks of this kind were left on any of our bodies, there is no need whatsoever for this type of violence to anyone, young or older. Judge Burge you not only let the wrong man off with nothing, not even a hand slap, but you let off a person that now feels his actions were justified and will continue this behavior and will most likely get worse in his voilence tendencies. You have also just kept the cirlce of violence going rather than putting a stop to it by standing up for this child!
Patricia, Lorain OH
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 05:38 PM EST
8 years old??
Is this for real?? From this picture I would never guess this person was only 8 years old. I was okay with yesterdays article, but this picture shed a whole new light. I got the occasional whooping when I was a kid, and it never left a mark. Those marks are out of line.
cindy , amherst ohio
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 05:28 PM EST
Whether the "child" is 8 or 18....no excuse for this type of abuse...disappointed with Judge Burges decision. This is clearly abuse.
Pam Falasco, Amherst, Ohio
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 04:55 PM EST
embarassing
You people are disgusting when you can look at this boy's injuries and call that justice. This judge had no right to allow and further condone this "father's" abuse as discipline. Effective discipline is teaching your children the difference between right and wrong. The end result being that your child has learned something from the experience. What Judge Burges has just taught this EIGHT YEAR OLD is that when someone does something you don't like you beat them until they are too afraid to repeat the behavior. This Judge has no business being in the position to make decisions about the safety of our children. This is all too obvious by his remarks that kids should be hit by their parents. I encourage you to actually talk to your "juvenile delinquents" about how often they were hit before resorting to a life that lead them to your detention center. The reality is when kids begin to experience effective discipline, that is when "your detention" center will be less crowded. Judge you are a coward and violent bully who has no business having a position of authority. Try reading research on effective discipline practice before your next case. With any luck this father will learn his lesson from some other authority since you so blatenly allowed him to miss this opportunity for learning effective parenting skills. If you are lucky this boy won't end up dead. You just justified his actions and the abuse will likely increase as a result of your validation. When this boy receives further abuse his blood will be on your hands as well as the hand of all the ignorant responders found below this article.
Stefanie, Columbus, OH
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 04:45 PM EST
I support Judge Burge's Decision
If there were more discipline in the home, there would be less crime in the street. If children don't learn right from wrong at home where are they going to learn it. Parent's must have the right to punish their children, even if it means a good old fashion whipping. My hats off to Judge Burge.
Robert Moore, Lorain, Ohio
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 04:40 PM EST
PUNISHMENT
Maybe the Judge and parent deserve this type punishment !
Stefanie
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 04:31 PM EST
I feel disipline is need for our kids. Maybe not to that extent, but never the less it is need. Kids today have no respect for ANYONE of authority. They need to know that there are consiqeinces for there action.
Shonda, Lorain,oh
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 04:31 PM EST
Corporal punishment
For all the people who disagree with Judge Burge, and the father,: Are these your children running around with no respect for others? Are these your children going around killing each other? My kids are alive and well, because corporal punishment was used in my home, if needed. My kids, my choice!!!!
vickie, lorain
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 04:30 PM EST
Who is the MAN in the picture????
Something isn't right here, the only way the person in that picture is eight years old is if you are counting in dog years. The reporter better go back to the police and get the right picture.
Tom, Westlake
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 03:39 PM EST
A Good Thing
I think Judge Burge did the right thing.My feelings are if it don't kill you it will make you better. There are so many parents out here that are afraid of their children,and because of the law for the children,telling them to call the police on parents,is why it's so out of control,and so many young children getting into trouble and killing each other.
It starts from home.More of you need to DISCIPLINED your children and stop being affraid of them.
Mary A. Windham, Lorain,Ohio
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 03:27 PM EST
ABUSE
That picture of the 8-year old boy who is now 9 cannot be the back of a child that young. Please tell me that the newspaper is incorrect--not to take away from the abuse of a child which is wrong, but that cannot be a child of that age.
T. Daniels, Lorain, Oh
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 03:23 PM EST
Judges decision on abuse case
I agreed with the Judges decision. It's about time court officals start realizing that our children/future has gotten out of control! There were no broken bones or burned skin just reddness and swelling. I often wondered what happen to the good old days when children had some type of respect, and a little fear of their parents, school teachers, and the law. I also feel if more parents would get a little tougher on there chrildren/future we would not have so many chlidren taking the lives of other children. I am so thankful that my Mother had made my bottom sore to the touch many days because I know if she would not have, I would not be the person I am today. Still respecting my elders, the law, and the community where I live. I no longer feel or see the phyical signs of my spankings but the lessons I learned for disobeying rules will never leave, because all who loved and cared about me, and my future and the future of this Nation new when to be strong, when I disobeyed the rules. And to awarded me when I obeyed. And to this day I am still getting rewarded for having an iron handed Mom. Thanks again Mom and You too Judge Burges!

GiGi Lewis, Lorain Ohio
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 03:11 PM EST
8 yr. old in that picture?
That is not a picture of an 8 yr. old child...check out the pants. That is an adolescent boy.
D. Zivic, Lorain, Ohio
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 02:51 PM EST
Discipline to Death
A spanking is one thing, but this is child abuse. The child and his brother should never have been put back with their father that caused such ugly scars. Yes scars, that the youth will have on his back forever. Also, scars to his emotional stability. The father needs anger-management. But that is easier said than done. A wise judge would have had a court order writen to the efect that the father HAD to attend anger management classes and see a psychiatrist regarding the anger, until the psychiatrist deemed him freed from this reaction to emotional outbursts. Yet this judge, who is supose to be wiser than the average person, deemed it fit tha this father should be free to "discipline: his child or his other children. This is justice? No, this is STUPIDITY. Someone elected this judge to this position. Cannot he be unelected or made to step down? This is judicial UNFAIRNESS! This judge was W R O N G ! ! !.
Sharon Meddley, Hampton, Virginia
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 02:10 PM EST
parenting
Physical violence is a crutch for the ignorant. Uncontrolable kids are a direct result of lazy parenting. Nobody is asked to be brought into this world...
steve andri, rancho santa margarita Ca
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 01:30 PM EST
Difference between Abuse and discipline
This is clearly abuse, no child should have marks like this; the people who abuse children like this should be locked up.
Joan, Lorain, OH
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 01:22 PM EST
Photo proof of abuse
I don't know the reason this photograph was taken, unless to show proof of the OBVIOUS signs of abuse. A spanking is one thing, this is ABSOLUTELY HORRIFIC!!!!!!! Judge Burge should have his head examined!!!
barbie, Elyria, OH
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 12:59 PM EST
When "time-out's" dont' work
The father took the correct steps, he TRYED non-violent methods and the kid was still misbehaving. What will happen when the child is a teen and is kissing girls against thier wishes...or worse? He''l end up in jail, and everyone will ask "where were his parents? why didn't they teach him right from wrong?"
Beth, N. Olmsted
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 12:44 PM EST
Ignorance
Parents do not have the "RIGHT' to physically harm their children. Parents do have the OBLIGATION to teach their children right from wrong, and there are many ways that can be accomplished without whipping them with a belt and leaving welts. To the man who felt "...the youth of today have no conscious and no direction": if you really feel that way (and I would strongly disagree), do you really think that the best way to provide our nation's future with direction is to beat them? Is a good conscious fostered from unnecessary and excessive punishment? I would almost guarantee you that more 18-24 year olds are sitting in prison who where punished in your "old fashioned way" than young adults punished corporally attending Ivy League Schools. Judge Burge has proved he is ignorant to larger cultural trends and has given free reign for the cycle of abuse that occurs in many American households to continue.
Ken Moore, Washington, D.C.
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 12:11 PM EST
butts not backs
yes children need to be spanked that is what the butt is for. NOT the back . JUDGE Burge is a good man and a fair judge of people.Mr Smith may be in need of parenting classes but certainly not prison its funny we cry that are children wont listen that there is no discipline or respect and we do nothing
charles parker, lorain ohio
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 12:09 PM EST
Rapist/Molester in the making?
I applaud and commend Judge James Burge for taking a stand on in home discipline. While I don't agree with the area in which the father swatted the child, I do agree with his method. Furthermore it appears that Smith did everthing he could to discipline the child, taking away privileges:games;toys and the like but to no avail, only to use corporal punishment as a last ditch effort to instill in this child that invading someones personal space without being invited is a huge, no-no paticularly as it pertains to kissing. I fell, if left untreated this boy could end up being a molester or a rapist, none of which, I am sure you'll agree, is a good thing.
Hector Sanchez, St Petersburg, Fll
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 12:08 PM EST
Abuse?
I never struck my children when they were growing up. They turned out to be highly successful young adults with great careers. There are, however, circumstances when corporal punishment is warrented. Some of today's children have no respect for any authority from anyone. They know that no matter what they do, the parents can't touch them because all they have to do is complain to someone and the parents get into trouble, as this dad did. Has a way been found to discipline these wayward children or should they end up in juvenile detention? Does disicipline start at home? It should. When all else fails, a good whopping is the way to go. I hate to say things were better in my time BUT we would never think of disobeying our parents or teachers or any authority figure, because we knew there were tough consequences. Why are things different now? Parents seem to want to be friends to their children instead of being parents, who should teach, guide and discipline when necessary. Good for this dad who was trying to keep his son in line. I certainly don't believe he should have been brought up on abuse charges. I also feel the punishment could have been less severe. I would have terrible guilt if I would inflict such damage to my child.
Viola Free, Avon, OH
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 12:07 PM EST
8 year old (NOT)
Regardless of right or wrong that is not a picture of an 8 year olds back. What is the Journal trying to do showing the back of a man in place of an 8 year old. Look at the shoulders on that guy! The media is trying to persuade the public with things like this.
Pat Hagerman, Estill, SC
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 12:03 PM EST
This does NOT look like a 8 yr old boy. no way no how
Karen Redongh, Lake, Ohio
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 11:47 AM EST
Why does he have custody?
I'm curious to know how and why James Smith has custody of his children and not the children's mother. I commend Mr. Smith for ATTEMPTING to be a father, when most men don't and won't and simply walk away. Now I am in agreement with his method of punishment; however, on the buttocks, not the back, legs, arms, etc.
TH, Cincinnati, OH
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 11:42 AM EST
chjild abuse
this is no way to treat a child .If the father is doing this when the boy is only 9yrs old what will he do to him when problems arise when he is a teenager? there are different ways to go about your child's behavior problems other than beating them. i think beating them will only make the child become resentful to the parent. this is child abuse i thought we were suppose to stop the violence in Lorain beating your child is only teaching them wrong ways to go about things.
kelly, wellington oh
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 11:38 AM EST
Burg's decision to acquit father
I agree with the Judge.There is disipline and there is abruse, disipline have been taken away from the parents.But it's ok that our childrens to get abuse from the law.If we can't disipline them and it's ok for the law to beat and abuse them, then there is a problem in our legal system. And for the father I aplude you Cause in the HOLY BIBLE in Proverbs 23:13-14 tells you not to withhold discipline from a child. All you so called authority personal you need to read God's Law.
Sarah Noble, Lorain Ohio
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 11:21 AM EST
bruising on the 8 yr olds back
i agree with disciplining our children, but, in this case leaving all those bruises on
that childs back is unacceptable parenting. htting a child on the rear end is one thing
but one can tell that leaving those bruises is abuse, no child should have to go through
that, apparently his father needs parent counseling. his back looks like it has
welts on it, which makes one wonder about his fathers temper.
lisa, lorain, ohio
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 11:15 AM EST
ABOUT TIME
It is about time a judge stands up for the rights of parents. No parent should fear consequences due to spanking their children. The back may be a bit excessive, that is what they have butts for, but the children are out of control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The parents pay the court and lawyer costs when the children get into trouble, then the courts ask where the parents were to "control their children." And in response to the psychologist that feel corporal punishment promotes violence, I got the belt and wooden spoon when needed and I have never been in a fight or felt violent in my whole life. I am 33 years old and I still address my elders by Mr or Ms, and I STILL would never think twice about disrespecting an adult and definitely not my parents. Yes we feared our parents, and we turned out better people. That's the problem, these kids fear NOONE. So to the courts and police, I say, if you won't let the children fear their parents because it is abuse, QUIT WHINING about all the delinquents making your case load so extensive. Quit blaming the parents and asking where they are all the time. Remember, WE ARENT ALLOWED TO DO ANYTHING! Unless we want to go to jail. If grounding and talking doesn't work, then we need to spank them!
Lynne Martin, Lorain, Oh
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 11:08 AM EST
Is this child really 8 years old? He looks like he could be a teenager in this picture. I have a 7 year old boy and there is a HUGE difference in size. Although, I do believe we need to be able to punish our children, but there is a difference between spanking on the butt and beating a child. I believe these marks were a bit much.
A. Zook, Mt. Washington, Kentucky
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 10:56 AM EST
Kids Can Be Bad
But that is too much... i can not imagine..this family is going to need a lot of counseling.. God Be with this family and guide them to love, patience and understanding.......
Laila, Lorain, Ohio
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 10:39 AM EST
Child Abuse Picture
Oh my gosh. I just saw the picture of that childs back. I am so afraid the next time this young boy goofs, he won't be around to have pictures taken. My heart goes out to him and his brother. That was a out and out beating by a madman. That was disgusting. Being firm and losing control for personal reasons are two different things people!!! How proud this "dad" must be of himself. YUK......Where is the love in this home, towards these children...Shame on the system....Shame....That is one sick man that is very troubled and violent.......
Sue Smith, Amherst, Ohio
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 10:35 AM EST
In regards to the picture on the front page of the yesterdays paper. Is that really an 8 year-old or my eyes decieving me? I must have polled 25 people at work and not one of them believed that to be the backside of an 8 year-old. Do you have the right picture?


Michelle Holbrook, Lorain, Ohio
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 10:33 AM EST
Unbelievable
It is a shame that justice was not served for this child, this is not just an ordinary punishment but infact abuse! If a person would have beat an animal this way they would have been charged with animal cruelty, which they should be, but why are our animals more protected than our children. If the law cannot protect children from unjust acts where do they have left to turn to? I believe children need to learn right from wrong, but how is this teaching them anything but abuse or force is alright ? There are other ways or methods to correct children! Maybe this child had so many beatings like this what he did do wrong was a form of acting out to get the attention and love he needed as well as understanding. If you cannot correct your child with other methods besides beating them then maybe the child needs professional help.
Mrs. Harrell, Lorain , Ohio
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 10:30 AM EST
Whos right ,and who s .wrong
I can;t really say anything afer seeing the pictures of this child back.Yes are kids are out of contron .But let us not be so quick to junde this case atil we know everything first of all this back does not look like a 8 year old back it looks like a back of a 16 year old but does that make it right?Of couse not but we really dont know the whole story.I myself belive in punishing my kids for the things that they do wrong becuase i dont want lorain city police to punish them so does that make me wrong also?
Brenda Valentine, Lorain, Ohio
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 10:25 AM EST
Coincidence?
It's interesting how most of the people who disagree with the judge's ruling are women. I think we need to look further at single-parent households that are run by women. In many cases, those kids that wind up in juvenile detention come from not only broken homes, but in most cases, homes with a woman as the head of the household. In these cases discipline is weak and the child takes advantage of that weakness by the mother. Now we see a clear case where the young boy is disciplined by his father and all these bleeding heart women are shocked. Just as ridiculous are the psychologists who claim the child is emotionally damaged. Hogwash! Corporal punishment is a useful tool when used correctly and women need to start understanding that concept!
Don
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 10:21 AM EST
Beating of child
I was disturbed when I read Judge Burge's comments on this case. I had not seen the pictures at that point. I have just seen the pictures and am shocked at the ignorance in this community towards child discipline. This type of assault is not discipline. I encourage parents who feel they have to resort to this type of behaviour to contact the many social agencies who are willing to help control this type of anger shown to this CHILD. I hope the school districts and social agencies will continue to monitor children and not allow this type of ignorance to continue. Judge Burge is ineffective and should retire. This type of thinking cannot go on if you want your children to grow in confidence and become a positve members of their communities.
Marilyn Barlow, Middletown,OH
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 10:05 AM EST
Judge James Burge
I have always thought belts served the purpose of holding trousers/slacks up. How about having Judge Burge and the boy's father submit to a much larger person hitting them on the back with a wide belt leaving marks such as these. If it were the wife wouldn't it have been domestic violence? or would these same people defending such behavior also state that a man has dominance over his wife. What a sham this judge has made of all the efforts to stop domestic violence. Abused children generally become abusers. They learn what they live and live what they learn. If this child was kissing girls and the school complained about it, why wasn't someone talking with the boy about it or sending him for therapy. Perhaps he was only starved for some type of affection. I can't believe this man has custody of 2 children. Waken up, people.
Ruth Greiffenhagen, Wellington, Ohio
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 10:04 AM EST
The 8 year old's back was tore up. Don't vote for Burge. Some folks just don't need to be parents and some folks just don't need to be judges.
Pat Holbrook, Elmore OH
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 10:01 AM EST
Opinions abound both for, against Burge's decision to acquit father in abuse case
Perhaps Mr. Smith should be permitted to place some lovely stripes across the back of Judge Burge, as he has done with his son! Would he still acquit? This type of abuse deserves severe punishment in return!! Get Burge off the bench!
Eleanor Cortese, Conway, South Carolina
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 09:50 AM EST
This is definitely ABUSE
A spanking is one thing, this is absolutly abuse without question. There is no reason for a child to be spanked on any other part of their body but their behind. How dare this person abuse a child like this and think it is alright. How can you say you love your child then beat them like this? This is beyond me...
Alecia, Brooklyn, OH
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 09:45 AM EST
Mis-judged
Judge Burge made a grevious misjudgement when he dismissed cherges against the father who used a belt across the back of an 8yr old child . A child who "kisses" other children, certainly doesn`t need to be lashed with a belt. A smack on the "Fanny" is sufficient corporal punishment in very special conditions. At the least ,the father should have been placed in a supervised position, and not given carte blanche to do this again to one of his children. He is an abuser of children. Judge Burge has enabled this moron to repeat this type of punishment again.This is a case that deserves the attention of a larger media coverage. A grave misjudgement has been made here.
Ron Rush, Amherst, Ohio
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 09:44 AM EST
Shocked at Judges Decision
It's quite obvious that these markings were produced by a pretty hard strike from the belt. The picture in the paper of the now 9 year old doesn't fit the physical body size. This boy looks much older and more developed. What parent would go to these extremes to teach his child a lesson like this. What worries me is that this father had a previous history of abuse. Today's society can be very stressful and this surely does not need to be taken out on our children. With so many young couples wanting to have children and cannot, maybe this father needs to sit back and communicate more with his children and realize they are a gift from the man upstairs and see how lucky he is to be a parent.

Communication, grounding and love should be in store for this boy. Judge Burge....no human should ever be struck with a foreign object. This situation is so sad.
Linda A. Burnworth, Amherst, Ohio
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 09:40 AM EST
Wrongful Punishment!
Although some children need disciplined in different ways, wether it be by being spanked or time-outs, this was over the line. Judge Burge is not a judge that should be serving this community! He let an abusive father have his now scared child back. And for what was he punished? For kissing girls. He didn't physically hurt anyone in any way. Now he has to live with the pain he has been caused. Different children deserve different punishments for different behaviors, but they never deserve being beaten. This child could now turn up dead. All because his father was told it's okay to punish your son however you see fit!
Elizabeth S., Lorain, Ohio
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 09:40 AM EST
I feel so sorry for the child
I have three daughters ranging in the ages of 23yrs to 15yrs and I have NEVER had to result to physical punishment. Yes, we most certainly did go through some rebellious teen years, but instead of hitting them we took personal things that we knew they would miss (for sometimes weeks at a time), ie...gameboys, tv., steroes, no friends over and no leaving the house. Taking the phone from them is the big one - they hate it!! I am proud to say that my children are successful as one has a business degree working for a large firm, one has already been accepted to Duke University and the other will graduate early due to her acheivements. Love your children and don't leave scared memories of their childhood. I was an abused child and belt marks like that are definitely outrageous. Would you like to be hit like that? It hurts their body,self esteem and breaks their spirit down. Shame on ANYONE who agrees with physical punishment to this extent. GOD have mercy on your soul...
Mary, Fuquay Varina NC
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 09:38 AM EST
very wrong for judge burge to acquitte the father
i don't believe that it ever solve this abuse, that his father did to the son,the father will always know that he can do that with belt and get away with it, I know for a fact that beating with a belt or switch, or spoon or anything large will only cause the child to learn to hate, the parent. that was very wrong thing for the father to do to his son, Iknow for a fact ,cause it happened to my brother and I, with a belt too, it caused alot anger too,beating with a belt, like that never solve anything that is done to a child in that way. i know it be a way the father will always have to punish him for any wrongs son might do. Hope all is well now with the son, and learn your right from wrongs, what son did was not a good thing at his age of 8 yrs either, take care god bless,may you be safe as u grow up
Lauren Fox, Huron,Ohio
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 09:29 AM EST
Crossing the line between punishment and abuse
I as a parent of three grown children used many means of punishment including spanking and my children had respect as well as know the difference between right and wrong. However if spanking was the form it was on the buttocks and was not severe enough to cause "extensive bruising". There is a fine line between what I would think is abuse and spanking and "extensive bruising" on the back would cross that line. The back is not the place for hitting but the buttocks has more cushion. The back has way too many necessary things it protects the spine and etc. I dont have a problem with people spanking a childs buttocks without "extensive bruising" however spanking a child elsewhere and leaving markings is what I would consider over the line. People have gone from one extreme to the other regarding this issue and the judge was right in that the juvenile delinquents would be fewer if some of them got spanked growing up. However I dont think crossing that line would teach them the difference between right and wrong. From the picture of this child, yes the line was crossed between corporal punishment and abuse. A childs back is not an area for spanking nor is hitting a child hard enough to leave such bruising. Lets hope that the parent involved in this case after having gone to court realizes that and doesnt cause injuries in the future after having gotten away with crossing the line this time. There should have been NO DOUBT to the Judge that this parent crossed the line between punishment and abuse! The best interest of the child was not looked out for by the judge in this case which is what the judge gets paid by our tax dollars to do. He failed in this case to do his job! Now that this parent has gotten away with abuse he will probably continue, this child should not be in his care nor should any child.
Sandy Browning, Sheffield Lake, Ohio
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 09:24 AM EST
BURGES
DO THE SAME THING TO THE JUDGE& SEE HOW HE FEELS TAKE HIM OFF THE BENCK. TY.
VONDA, LORAIN, OHIO
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 09:09 AM EST
Harsh Disiipline
I cannot support the judge's decision in this case. The kind of marks that the Father left were way too severe, unlike a simple spanking. The father was obviously very angry, and you do not disipline your children under those circumstances. And for Heaven's dake, this is an 8 year old we are talking about, not un unruly teenager. JUST A LITTLE GUY! Surely there was a better way to get the message across.
Nancy, Amherst, Ohio
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 09:00 AM EST
Abuse Case
Is that really a photo of an 8 or 9 year old boy?
Nancy Emery, Vermilion, OH
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 08:46 AM EST
Wish I had Judge James Burge when I was charged for controlling my unruly child
I have to commend Judge Burge for his decision. Todays kids are out of control, rude, disrespectful and just flat out mean. I myself am a victim of being arrested for trying to controlling my snot nosed 16 year old daughter back in 1998 when we lived in Sheffield Lake. She did what she wanted when she wanted and how she wanted. She was very good at punching holes in our walls, putting her foot through our cabinet doors, staying out half the night, telling us to "F" off, taking the car when she wanted, telling teachers off, walking out of class when she pleased. I have never been in trouble with the law, I have no juvy record and at the age of 38 was charged with domestic violence, spent the night in County jail, had to go to counceling for anger management in order to get the charges dropped to disorderly conduct, which to this day I have no clue if it was reduced, but the fact still remains, that I know have a record and why? Because I was doing my job as a parent to control my child. Granted this father went a little too far with hitting the child on the back. In my house they had to grab their ankles so that I had a clear shot of their butts. My oldest daughter called it "Assuming the Postion". I dont believe in hitting any child above the waist. That's why the good lord gave them butts. But still, our rights as parents have been taking away from us, our kids are taught that if we hit them it is abuse and that they should turn us in. Ok, fine. Now we have kids as young as 8 who are rapping other kids, beating up other kids, (i.e the Missy Black beating back in the mid to late 90's in sheffield lake because those girls wanted to see how it felt to beat someone) they are stealing, joining gangs, doing what they want. When I was being booked at county, the guards where cocky with me until I told them WHY I was there. The looks on their faces were of disbelief. All they could say was "And your here and she's not?" Parents need to start fighting back and taking back control of their kids. There is a big difference in flat out beating and abusing your child and good old fashsion punishment. Growing up, I knew better than to get into trouble. My mother was not one of those mothers who said "wait till your father gets home" she handled it and then when dad got home, he handled it also. Kids today dont care and I think its time to grab the brat by the neck and make them care. Three Cheers for Judge James Burge.
Connie Douglas, North Ridgeville, Ohio
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 08:43 AM EST
However
The father should go to counseling to find other ways to punish the child.
Chrissy Tassone, Elyria, Ohio
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 08:41 AM EST
Bravo to Judge Burge
Thank you! Finally a Judge that will stand up and against the rantings of Children Services. When parent's are "AFRAID" to discipline thier kids because CPS would get involved it became a sad day. The very same people who will take your children in heartbeat "complain" because children are out of control. They are out of control because they want you to discipline them "lovingly". Well people lovingly discipline has got you children carrying guns to school and shooting each other, selling drugs on the street, beating up their parents, and teachers, doing drugs, killing their own families, children and wives; filling up the Juvenile Detention Centers and later the prisons. THAT IS WHAT LOVING DISCIPLINE HAS GOT YOU. Children Services is nothing more then a way for the State to make money at the parent's expense, they are out of control and I would bank odds that most Police Officers would agree.

Take God out of school and discipline from the parents and we have nothing more then a bunch of adolescent rejects running around the streets.
Chrissy Tassone, Elyria, Ohio
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 08:27 AM EST
8 year old?
First, the photo provided by the Lorain Police to the Morning Journal shows a male subject that appears from his muscle definition to be older than 8 years old - more the age of a teenage boy. Is this the same photograph provided to the Judge? If so, why did the court reporter return it to the police? Once admitted into evidence it should not leave the hands of the court reporter. Secondly, Ohio law gives Ohio parents the right to discipline their children - Attorney Berki makes reference to the fact that the child did not bleed, which is consistent with Ohio appeals court decisions reversing convictions of parents that discipline to the extent of bloodying their children. Judge Burge followed the law. The prosecutor's office, knowing the law, should have reconsidered its decision to proceed to trial with the case. Perhaps a plea agreement for a misdemeanor domestic violence offense (rather than a felony conviction and prison incarceration) would have been the wise choice for the prosecution. Perhaps the father would have accepted such an arrangement and this case would never have made the headlines. Shouldn't our assistant prosecutors learn how to negotiate when they have weak cases. No, for the Lorain County Prosecutor's office, it is always easier to lose a trial, have Defendant go free without some sort of punishment, and blame the judiciary for the difficult decisions of following the law. Lastly, where is the 8 year olds mother? She has a right to request that custody of the boy be modified and that he be placed in her care. Has she filed such a motion? Was the boy placed with her? Did children services file a complaint to remove the boy from his father's residence? Judge Burge is a common pleas, general division judge. He does not rule on custody cases. There is a Juvenile court and a domestic relations court - the judges in those courts deciide custody cases. They are not bound by a "reasonable doubt" standard like Judge Burge; rather they follow the best interest of the child standard. Shouldn't the mother and/or the Children Services Agency be criticized for not removing the child from his father's custody? He did have a prior conviction for domestic violence against the boys mother. I am confident that if the mother or the Agency applied for custody of the child, one of the juvenile or domestic relations court judges would have given custody to the mother or some other suitable relative because of this recent incident involving the child.
Sam R. Bradley, Amherst, Ohio
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 08:15 AM EST
Justice Served
I think justice has finally been served. The judges decision to aquit the accused of all charges will hopefully send a statement to the all of the unrulely and disrespectfull children and young adults out there who completely disregard laws and authority that parents are getting back the right and ability to decipline their children the way they feel is necessary. The way I understood the story is that the young man had broken rules and has had several instances of disciplinary problems even after the father attempted other means of punishment and none of which had any affect of detering the boy from continueing his unrulely ways. The father took action and I bet the boys behavior has changed and I know he most certainly will think twice before breaking anymore rules and disrespecting authority. We have to face the fact that our children our becoming OUT OF CONTROL. In many homes today the children are dictating how the household is run and parents are being threatened by there own chilidren to have the police called on them and charged with domestic violence just because the parents are attempting to gain control and teach disciplin. We as responsible parents have to maintain a certain level of what I call "fear factor". Our children have to have a certain amount of fear of there parents for breaking the rules and being disrespectful. Don't get me wrong I think the problem is not only the children, but also the parents. We hesitate to disciplin our children due to the fear of being prosecuted or having the authorities called on us and having to go through the process of investigation and so on and so fourth. Many parents in todays society have to work and don't have the time to go through the legal process just for attempting to disciplin there children. Case in point. My wife and I have a 2 and 1/2 year old and a 10 mon. old. We enrolled our 2 and 1/2 year old in Gymnastics class. She at times can be very unrulely and disrupt the class. When I take her to the class she is for the most part well behaved, but when my wife takes her she is very disruptive. My wife hesitates to even put her in the corner for a "timeout" let alone spank her bottom because of the little voice in her head that there is the chance that someone will see it as abusive and call the police or childrens services on her. Therefore many times she will leave class early. This to me is ridiculous. Parents should not have any fear when it comes to raising and disciplining there children. I think I can speak for most of us as adults that when we were growing up if we broke the rules or disrespected our elders we didn't get our playstations taken away, we got our bottoms blistered. and guess what, we all survived. So again Kodo's to the judge who gave back the authority of discipling to the parents.
Rob Watchorn, Lorain, Oh
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 08:00 AM EST
I feel there is a difference between disciplining and abusing. I understand the message the Judge is trying to send regarding disciplining children. Maybe if more children were disciplined there wouldn't be as many juvenile delinquents. Society has taken away the rights of parents when it comes to disciplining. Youth are quick to indicate that they will call the police if disciplined physically. I remember when I was growing up (I'm only 34) and I would get hit with anything that was (shoe, belt, spoon) around and I turned out just fine. I have also heard stories of the older generation saying they would get hit with tree branches and they turned out just fine. The probem here is that there is a very fine line that needs to be determined. Was it abuse or discipline? I don't know because I didn't see the evidence but the Judge should know. I feel Judge Burge is the elected official here and obviously he feels he made the right choice. I feel society should support the Judge because when this child becomes a "nuisance in society" then society is going to turn around and say "maybe he wasn't disciplined at home!"
Melinda, Lorain, Ohio
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 07:52 AM EST
on judge Burge
I strongly support Judge Burge on his decision & applaud his common sense. Those bleeding hearts that oppose him should look around at the state of our young people. I'm willing to bet this kid will not repeat this behavior & will seriously think of the consequenses before he does something stupid again.
Rogelio Mitchell, lorain ohio
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 07:51 AM EST
I wonder if all those people who defended the judge saw the picture that you printed today. I can't believe that anyone would condone this kind of punishment. There are more people offended by what Michael Vick did to those dogs than what this father did to his son. I am sickened by this photo and the people who think it is OK to punish in this manner.
Joan, Amherst
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 07:50 AM EST
SHAME
SHAME on you BURGE
SHAME on the father
Tell me what did the CHILD learn......go ahead THINK about it.
Lillian Rush, Avon Ohio
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 07:46 AM EST
The punishment may have been overdone but the decision by Judge Burge was correct.

I notice most of the negative comments come from women!

This boys aggressive sexual behaviour must be into line now.

There is a right way and a wrong way to approach a women.

Yet women get RAPED every day and wonder why?

The Father is the main control over his son, but is interferred with by the mother.

You women wake up, young males can only be disiplined by the father they will walk all over you women because you are too easy on disipline.
Joseph Bevaque, Vermilion, Ohio
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 07:37 AM EST
Abuse vs Punishment
Punishment spanking is done in a way that does not humiliate and degrade a childs self-esteem. Abuse is when the signs of the beating have scarred the child both physically and emotionally. Had a stranger done this to this child the father would be pressing charges for assault and looking for justice and punishment to the person who beat his son. Judge Burge, you let a man beat the crap out of a boy. His next beating might be worse and he'll probably be in your court again. Nice job!!!!
Scott Toth, Lorain, OH
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 07:32 AM EST
Child punishment
And to all of you that never punished your child (only sent them to the happy chair), when one of those children breaks into your home, rapes your youngest child, robs you and pistol whips you on the way out the door, let us see if the thought of how that child was raised and what his parents didnt do will come to your mind!
Jackie Thomas, Lorain
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 07:29 AM EST
Abuse or Not?
I worked at Lorain County Children's Services for 18 years. I feel that this child was abused. We always counseled parents that while it was OK to spank your child, it needed to be in the proper area and with your hand. If marks were left, it was always found abusive. I am certain that the father was frustrated with the boy but he needed to find another way to "discipline" him.
Ellen Burge, Lorain, Ohio
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 07:15 AM EST
Child Punishment
If any of us can remember coming up as a child, when whippings were not an issue, none of us turned out to be bad people. Why, because we had memories of what happens when you dont get punished and only scolded. The parents today need to whip their children to teach them manners and respect. That is the only way to do it. And any doctor or pschologist that suggest otherwise is inviting their own children to carry guns, rob and torment innocent people because all they expect is to be scolded instead of punished. If you teach and punish in the early years, you really wont have to worry much about your child going out and killing another with no remorse about their actions and the crime rate of children would not be what it is today. SHAME ON ALL OF YOU FOR NOT WHIPPING YOUR CHILDREN AND SENDING THEM OUT HERE ON THE REST OF US TO DEFEND OURSELVES AGAINST YOUR CHILD!
Jackie Thomas, Lorain
Added: Wednesday August 22, 2007 at 07:09 AM EST
Yea?Sure Looks Like Discipline to Me!
As I wrote in yesterday’s opinions, funny how not one person commented on finding out the reason why an 8 year old boy is kissing young girls at school, not once but 4 times. How young could these girls have been if the boy is 8? Where were the teachers? Was it innocent? Are there bigger issues at play for this young man? Did the beating curtail the behavior? Am I a disciplinarian…yes. Did I spank my children when they could cause harm to themselves or others…yes. Does beating with a belt teach hitting is OK as long as you are not angry…yes. I would be more concerned as to why my child felt it appropriate to kiss young girls at school then how can I beat some sense into him. I am a former Marine and believe whole heartedly in discipline. I am also a father who has raised 3 very respectful children and has never beaten them with a belt. Sometimes a quick beating is a COP-OUT that only satisfies the parents’ emotional state at the time of the punishment. Real ‘Parenting’ is not that easy! I’m a little concerned that 9 out 10 of every comment in yesterday’s paper was for the beating, the quick fix to a problem that could be completely innocent. These readers call themselves good, intelligent parents? Give me a break! If these are the pictures that Judge Burge saw, and he acquitted this father for child abuse, someone needs to investigate Judge Burge’s actions! Those pictures are disgusting!!!!!!!!!
Don Capri, Elyria
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